Monday, November 21, 2005

Who is responsible for Ruben Cantu's death?

I'm not a supporter of the Death Penalty in most situations. Having had this discussion on line for several years one of the first statements that comes up from those that are pro-Death Penality is "There is no proof an innocent person has been sentenced to death". Well it appears that day has come if the new revelations about Ruben Cantu are true.

The above linked Houston Chronicle story has more information on this situation than CNN or several of the other news reports that are coming out. Realistically one of the most valid reasons for not using the Death Penalty comes from the Judge that originally sentenced Cantu:

Roy Barrera Jr, said the case underscores weaknesses in the system, especially in the "riskiest cases," which rely heavily on eyewitness identification. "People do lie under oath, and people do get convicted on the basis of lies," Barrera said. "This case, like thousands of other cases in the system across the country, cry for a thorough examination of the process."

It's not just the legal system that caused Rueben Cantu to be tried or found guilty for a crime it appears he may not have been responsible for. Most of the responsibilty is with those who lied, and Cantu himself for following the belief that one does not betray a "brother". Cantu could have saved himself, yet he waited for someone else to come forward. The three men who could have prevented his death, David Garza who was involved with the shooting and the other teen that was involved in the shooting said nothing. Garza has now come forward years too late. The other teen who helped Cantu get set up still denies he was involved, yet claims to be in fear of his life from threats made by Cantu's older brothers. A victim that survived the shooting, Juan Moreno, is also stating that Ruben Cantu did not shoot him, and that he was pressured by the police to identify Cantu as the shooter. Moreno said nothing, even as the time approached for Cantu to be put to death. It's also obvious that there are also some questions as to the quality of legal representation Cantu received in addition to problems with the legal system. While it will probably be pointed out that this is the sole failure of the legal system, anyone trying to be realistic would accept that the blame for this can be attributed to all of the above.

If someone is sentenced for a crime and they are later found to be innocent, it is hard for them at times to adjust; however if someone is given the death penalty and it is found later that they might be innocent? There is no way to take that back. Given our legal system is imperfect because it relies on humans who are not perfect, in my opinion the Death Penalty should be in very rare situations, that the evidence should be above the standards required for a life sentence. I always found it ironic that many murderers plead guilty to avoid the Death Penalty yet those who declare they are innocent are the ones who typically end up receiving the Death Penalty. It's obvious of course that some of them lied and were really guilty but how many Ruben Cantu's have been put to death? Even if he ends up being the only innocent person executed, or if Gaza and Moreno are still not being honest, it does give some real evidence that the Death Penalty should be looked at.

I did some additional research on this issue and decided to expand on it at Watch Blog. For those interested:

http://www.watchblog.com/

18 comments:

Scott G said...

I am for the death penalty, but just because I think some people deserve to die. I think that there is an evil in some people that we can only rid ourselves of by killing them. I don't think the sentence is perfect or that it should be common, but I think it has to be an option.

Unknown said...

I have mixed emotions, part of me agrees with you but since I also realize how often people lie...I'd rather have there be no death penalty at all rather than one that accidently allows innocent people to be executed.

Scott G said...

I understand your side of it too. I would hate innocent people being executed and mostly think the death penalty should be used for serial rapists and people who commit violent crimes against children.

Unknown said...

I think families of the victims should have a larger say in it too, some of them don't want the death penalty and some do. When it is used it should be what that particular family feels they need for closure.

Care of Sweety Technician said...

I've gone back and forth on this one. But let me say that there are many inmates in death row that have been exonerated by subsequent evidence. Then there is also the issue of minorities being overwhelmeningly overrepresented in the group. Also, since I work at a prison, I can tell you that life in prison is quite the punishment. It is also cheaper than funding all of the appeals if the person is sentenced to death. The death penalty also doesn't work as a deterrent. Interestingly, in the past centuries in Britain, every crime warrated the death penalty. A good portion of the executed were young (including children) people convicted of theft (pickpocketing). Guess what, most of them pickpocketed during the public executions!

Killing a criminal satisfies our visceral need for revenge. However, think about this: a narcissistic, psychopathic, egomaniac who looses all control and power (say, Charles Manson), if convicted to life in prison, has to think EVERY DAY about the fact that he got caught, is not going anywhere, and the most manipulating he can do is to get others to give him ramen noodles from canteen or other menial things. For the worst of them, those to kill in prison or get others to do so, I think the best is what a New York judge did to a prominent gang leader in that city who was ordering hits both inside and outside the prison... Life in segregation and with the rule that he could only talk with his attorney and no one else.
Ok, I'll jump off my soap box now.

Scott G said...

You are both right, but I still and probably will always believe that some people just need to die. I like the idea of the Colorado pen where they have had the Unabomber, McVeigh and Nichols, and really bad people in isolation cells under the prison, but still think some people just need to die.

Cyberseaer said...

Lisa, if Cantu had just led the police to one of his "brothers", like you stated he could have, then maybe he wouldn't have been execute. Call me selfish, but if I'm on trail for a murder that I didn't commit and could prove my innocence, whether the death penalty was in play or not, I would tell the cops. In my opinion, he was dumb not to tell the cops everything just for a stupid honor thing that let the killer or killers escape justice. I can't cry over this guy if he had his fate in his hands.

In this case, the legal system may have been flawed, but Cantu is responsible for he death. Like in the movie "The Death of David Gale" the main character wants to prove that the death penalty is flawed by being executed for a crime he didn't commit. The problem with the movie is that the main character did everything he could so that he could be executed. From geeting a bad lawyer all the way to hide evidence himself. The system is flawed if people don't tell the whole truth. In the flick, if the truth had come out Gale would be aquited of all charges.

That's my two cents. Where's my change?

Unknown said...

The Death of David Gale...thanks C, I was trying to remember the name of that movie. Reading about this made me think about that.

I did alot of research after I wrote this which is on the Watch Blog post rather than this one about the number of executions nationally and in Texas as well as how many I found this morning claimed they were innocent even to the last moments before they were executed.

I agree with you that Cantu could have prevented this. Basically what he did by not speaking up was almost a form of suicide. Why I still think it is important is there is another man out there right now who was the real killer. Executing the innocent whether due to their own stupidity or not still doesn't punish the right person.

Unknown said...

Thanks Robert and that was a very good article, very informative. I'm glad you joined in as it appears you've done a great deal of research on this topic as well.

:-)

Hooda Thunkit (Dave Zawodny) said...

If we could convict perps using only scientific evidence such as video, dna, or other non human evidence/testimony, I would be much more convinced of the fairness of the outcomes.

We cannot ever be as sure that the outcome is fair using solely human testimony; people lie.

Something productive must be done with those we do not execute, warehousing so many prisoners is a daunting task even in good times.

Much dispassionate thought by better minds than mine must be applied to life and death problems such as these; And, I know that my biased views would only serve to inflame other's opinions...

Unknown said...

That is a very valid point HT, I'm not sure what the solution is but it would be better if some good could come of the time spent in prison.

Anonymous said...

The death penalty is always a touchy issue. On the one hand, no human being, or even a group of human beings, can necessarily fairly judge whether another human being deserves to die.

On the other hand, the criminals for whom the death penalty is most often sought are those who, assuming their guilty verdict is correct, think little of the lives and suffering of other human beings.

Now, this idea of innocent people being killed for crimes they didn't commit gives me pause. Honestly, considering how often our justice system works the other way, i.e. guilty people getting off without punishment, it's not something I'd ever really considered. It is certainly food for thought.

However, I must agree with me4 here, that eliminating the dealth penalty entirely would be a mistake. For some, there is plenty of evidence to establish guilt without a doubt, let alone a reasonable one. For those, dependent on their crimes, we should reserve the death penalty, imo.

Scott G said...

Someone agreed with me. I am the king of the world!!!!!

Unknown said...

See Me4, I told you that you are special.

:-)

Anonymous said...

King? I thought you were going for president.

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