Saturday, December 27, 2008

Israel kills and wounds more civilians, nothing will happen

The US and the UN response to any other nation killing at least 180 to 225 (depending on which nation the report is in) and wounding between 200 to 800, (depending on which nation the media is reporting in) which includes women and children would be swift for most nations. However it's Israel, who claims that because of a few who refuse to give up and shoot rockets that once in a while does kill or injure a few people that they call "terrorism" when Israel does this it's "self-defense." It's being called Israel's version of Shock and Awe. Anyone with a modicum of common sense would see that Hamas has no ability to inflict real damage on Israel and that killing does not stop the violence, Israel has tried for decades to beat Palestine into submission.

This does keep the hatred of Israel continuing to grow in the Middle East because very few there will ever agree with the justification used by Israel to kill citizens, the hypocrisy of it's wrong for Hamas to kill innocents but not Israel. This increases the hatred directed at the US because we never do anything of real merit to stop this, and our government knows how those in Palestine are suffering. Time is already on the justification bandwagon, though at least they are a bit honest in pointing out the political game being played by Israel and Hamas.

Just as the other Middle Eastern nations know Palestine is suffering, but they will do very little to intercede, because their leadership does not want to stand up to either Israel or the US, because the US would defend Israel and because Israel has nuclear weapons. As pointed out many times in the past, it's also in the best interest of some of these Middle Eastern nations for their people to hate Israel and the US, we've actually created a common ground goal for them, to hate us and for those in Palestine to be perpetual martyrs...

Our nation will sit by and let Israel kill people as well as let women and children starve, we will sit by and watch as they are denied basic humanitarian needs as well as access to medical care and medications. Oh, I'm sure a "strongly worded" letter of some sort will be sent to Israel, but that's where it will end and until the day when either some other Middle Eastern nation decides they've had enough (which is of course one of the reasons why Iraq had to be taken over and why Iran is considered a threat) the people of Palestine will continue to be nothing more than sacrificial lambs in the political game being played out in the Middle East. Even then it won't really be because that nations cares about the people of Palestine, if any of these Middle Eastern nations did, conditions there would not exist the way they currently are. As an example, Egypt could easily allow humanitarian resources in or allow other nations to send them in. If the clamors to do something about Iran increase in the days to come, it could very well be related to scenarios like this, Iran is sending aide to Gaza against the demands of Israel.

While all of the hatred continues in Israel, some are shocked that a day care would refuse to allow an Arab child from Jewish daycare. It's not shocking, considering the type of suffering that Israelis justify happening to Arab children right at this very moment? The only thing surprising is that they openly admitted their hatred directed at a small child...

20 comments:

Roland Hansen said...

Maybe, Hamas should quit attacking Israel. Do you think that might help?

Lisa Renee said...

Nope, it wouldn't because Hamas has stopped and Israel has still let women and children go without food, water, medication, medical attention, electricity, and the list continues.

Nor has Hamas come anywhere close to killing or injuring people with their rockets compared to Israel. All you have to do is look at the number of Palestinian children killed by Israel, and the number injured. There's no comparison as to who is doing the most harm.

Lisa Renee said...

The most recent numbers do not include those killed in December, but it gives you a very clear picture as to who is killing and who has been killed.

link there is also additional information such as the number of deaths that have been reported as a result of not having access to medical treatment.

Jack said...

Sorry, but you have a very skewed version of reality. Let's take a short look at things.

The Hamas charter calls for the destruction of Israel. They consistently use indiscriminate violence to try and achieve their goals.

They use their own population to try and play upon world sympathy. Examples include forcing the wounded to stay within Gaza, fighting from within civilian positions in the hopes of generating civilian casualties.

They came to power in Gaza by terrorizing Fatah using Soprano like tactics in which they flung their fellow Palestinians from roof tops and shot them in the street.

Beyond that they have continually and consistently fired rockets at Israel. It doesn't matter whether these rockets are accurate (fact is many are Russian grade and are) but that they do.

They fire them with reckless abandon and with no regard for who might be killed.

Israel on the other hand has been careful to try and minimize the civilian casualties.

But the reality is that Hamas has brought about the violence and that you do not negotiate with people who openly advocate for your destruction.

It is simply wrong and misguided to suggest otherwise.

I don't want bloodshed, but you will not find examples of war that were won by throwing tulips.

Japan and Germany were utterly defeated and it was only at that point that they surrendered.

Until such time as Hamas amends their charter and proves that they are truly interested in diplomacy it is foolish to even consider it.

BTW, take a look at this post about rocketfire from Gaza into Israel
http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2008/12/rocket-fire-after-disengagement.html

Anonymous said...

Great ,Hamas stopped firing rockets during the ceasefire-do they want a cookie for that?This is so ridiculous I dunno why I'm even arguing with you,Israel is trying to stop Hamas from having the threat of thousands of rockets hanging over a quarter of a million Israelis.Think of it as a preventive attack as opposed to your notion that it's revenge on Palestinians......I can guarantee you if Israel knew Hamas wouldnt smuggle in weapons ,they would open the crossings-you think Israel likes dealing with international condemnation by idiots such as yourself? On the subject of Israel doing far more damage than Hamas-do you want Israel to repond with Katyushas? Would you respond to a person attacking you with restrained measures,or go all out to defend yourself..........oh why do I bother defending my country's actions to people who in theory probably agree with us but jump on the liberal-lets jump on the bandwagon-parade......
Show some moral fiber and think for yourself.

Lisa Renee said...

I don't think I have a skewed sense of reality, if anything it'd be the opposite. I'm not trying to pretend that the smaller group that is militarily weak and is under the control of another for even basic needs such as water and access to medical treatment is the main cause of the problem.

I also think the numbers of those killed and by who, demonstrates my point. As long as we justify what Israel is doing and pretend that Hamas is the sole problem? This will never end.

Lisa Renee said...

Gee anonymous, then please explain to me how what is happening now is magically different than the years of what has happened in Palestine?

It amazes me how so many of you prefer to name call rather than to look at the reality of what is really happening in the Middle East and why. How many of you have actually talked to someone who lived there? Most of you get your ideas of who is to blame from the media.

Anonymous said...

Gee Lisa, care to rephrase your rhetorical question into a coherent argument?
I happen to be Israeli but I'm living in New Jersey now-what are your "credentials" for talking about this situation?
Speaking of getting ideas from the media.......

Lisa Renee said...

Gee Anonymous that doesn't change anything except for show that you are commenting from your own personal position of bias.

When was the last time you spoke with someone who actually lived or lives in Palestine, especially the Gaza would still be a relevant question. If you'd like my answer? I spoke with several in the past few days who are very worried about family members there who are suffering needlessly.

Lisa Renee said...

And yes, I know you are from New Jersey and that you came here because Jill linked this post, as well as that you prefer to name call as an anonymous person rather than to actually contribute to any real discussion on the various points raised in the original post, which included holding other Middle Eastern nations responsible, but I guess you skipped over that part...

:-)

Anonymous said...

Gee Lisa,that makes you an expert? By that definition, as an Israeli I obviously know more about this than you do-although granted I don't know anyone in Sderot(google it)But I do know some folks in Ashkelon-a decent sized city that's under attack .How's this for rhetorical questions;do you actually know what it's like to live in fear? To live with the knowledge that any minute a rocket can come sailing into your living room or kid's classroom? Now that you've answered with an unequivocal no try putting yourself in the Israeli governments shoes -Wtf would you do? I guarantee you wouldn't let them keep that threat hanging over Israeli's until Hamas decides they're ready for an all out assault.
Until you can give me a better solution-I'm all for what Israel is doing now.

Lisa Renee said...

You avoided answering the question, which is about par for the course for those interested in name calling instead of actual conversation.

It's also typical of those who don't have the courage to actually use their real name in comments, I have no idea who you really are or where you are really from, while you've taken the time to visit my profile to learn about me.

If you actually ever want to have an adult conversation about the original points raised in the post, I look forward to it, other wise? Enjoy your evening and the attempts at trying to engage in an insult war that won't happen here.

:-)

Anonymous said...

Jeez ,I'm sorry I called you an idiot-apparently that's your only point of contention with me so enjoy it.
Please do more research and actually try to understand this conflict-till than ,you're hopeless
Btw saying you have common sense doesn't automatically imbue you with it.

Lisa Renee said...

I've been around for quite a few years so it takes more than someone calling me an "idiot" to raise my ire, what I have learned is when it's worth spending time responding and when it's a waste of time.

My reaction is based on your lack of response, as I said, if you ever want to actually discuss this and are interested in an exchange of ideas rather than grade school insults, you might discover I'm quite a bit more informed and I just might discover that about you.

Anonymous said...

Okay-I'm not exactly sure what I should respond to,please clarify.
Btw I'm truly interested in your point of view-I just have a hard time wrapping my head around it.

Lisa Renee said...

I asked when was the last time you spoke with someone who was from and/or had family in Palestine.

I think the problem you have with my position is you think I hold Hamas blameless, I don't, but I feel that Israel and the other Middle Eastern nations are responsible for what has happened for decades in Palestine and what continues to happen today.

Consistently the numbers demonstrate that it is the Palestinian people who have suffered, been killed and been wounded compared to Israel, Israel holds the power in this situation. Blaming Hamas as our government is doing, absolves Israel of their responsibility for the conditions that exist.

The same can be said for the other Middle Eastern nations, they use Palestine, as I write this what is happening in the Gaza is being used to create more hatred, calls are being made for revenge, when the reality is these nations could help ease the conditions in Palestine, it is in their best interest for that to not happen.

Israel's actions will not bring peace, it won't even stop the rockets, all it will create is more death, more suffering and more hatred. This is not going to make the people overthrow Hamas, this gives them the very reason they need to justify why they failed.

That'd be the short version...

Anonymous said...

I don't have to know people from Gaza to know that they are being screwed over and believe it or not I blame Israel the most for that .I feel bad for ordinary Gazans and I cringe whenever a supporter of Israel espouses wholesale destruction of Palestinians.That said-Israel made so many mistakes in the first place but what do you propose be done now? To rehash the mistake in not figuring out what to do with hundreds of thousands of Palestinians is pointless -that's in the past,what should Israel do now?

Lisa Renee said...

A good start would be to stop the lack of access to humanitarian supplies, especially medical aid.

Targeting rocket locations is one thing, what's happening now there is much more than that.

Continuing on making this known this is "war" is going to make it worse, they are not going to beat Palestine into submission, if that was possible it would have happened decades ago.

Anonymous said...

You're right ,this is much more than that, Israel has to deal a decisive blow to Hamas in order to stop rocket attacks-engaging in half-measures like only targeting the rocket launchers-besides for being impossible won't do shit

Just curious though,Hamas has been smuggling in all kinds of crap,weapons included,while they're at it why not smuggle in medical supplies?

Lisa Renee said...

More than weapons have been smuggled through the tunnel, not in the numbers that is needed to sustain that many people, it's another reason why the tunnels are destroyed. It's also another way that Hamas builds power thanks to Israel's action, those who need things end up relying on Hamas. I think historically we've learned (or at least we should have learned) that punishing a population by limiting their access to food, water, medication and other necessities just creates a black market for those who either still have money or connections.